Article: 1041 of alt.support.short From: "Darkfalz" Newsgroups: alt.feminism,alt.love,alt.romance,alt.support.loneliness,alt.support.short,alt.support.shyness,soc.singles,soc.women Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Stop Letting Women Walk All Over You Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:20:30 +1000 Lines: 80 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.a.001.cba.iprimus.net.au (210.50.171.131) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1061810430 8126034 210.50.171.131 (16 [108208]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: news.meer.net!sea-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!feed.news.nacamar.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!131.a.001.cba.iprimus.net.AU!not-for-mail Xref: archive.mv.meer.net alt.feminism:9074 alt.love:14712 alt.romance:20904 alt.support.loneliness:13747 alt.support.short:1041 alt.support.shyness:73003 soc.singles:88581 soc.women:8510 "Hardpan" wrote in message news:blbjkv87bmpt4vfmu9nlo0s15h7bd8h9cs@4ax.com... > www.askmen.com > > Stop Letting Women Walk All Over You > > By Matthew Fitzgerald > > Relationship Correspondent > > So now it's time for you to lay down the law. > > Ask her to change. Tell her you're not going to put up with her > behavior any more. To get you started, here's a list of 10 basic rules > that you should print out and hand over to every woman in your life. > From now on, these are the rules she can abide by: > > The new Rule book > > > 1- Learn how to communicate > Say what you mean, ask for what you want directly. Expecting a man to > interpret indirect signals and read your mind is not communication. > > 2- Learn to be consistent > Irrational behavior just doesn't cut it. If you say you're going to do > something, then follow through and do it. Be honest with yourself -- > don't say one thing and do another. And for God's sake, don't change > your mind a million times. > > 3- Stop using sex as bait > If you want to have sex, then have sex. Don't use sex as a tool to > manipulate men. And another thing: Stop tempting men with low-cut > dresses or bare midriffs and then blame them for trying to get you > into bed. If you need attention that badly, go see a shrink. > > 4- Develop a conscience > Stop abusing your sexual power. Many women have no ethical dilemmas at > all about using men for favors or financial gain by dangling the > promise of sex in front of them. Not only is this deceitful and > immoral, but it's a double standard nothing short of fraud. > > 5- Knock off the mixed messages > If you're interested in a guy, let him know it. Ditto with sex. Maybe > playing hard to get is cool if you're 12 years old, but it's just > annoying 20 years later. Refer to rule #1 -- men aren't able to read > minds, so don't expect them to. > > 6- Stop expecting men to finance your life > This is the 2000's, for God's sake -- women are enjoying unparalleled > career and earning opportunities, and it's unfair to treat men like > ATM machines, especially when many women are earning as much or more > than we are. It may be a great scam, but at its core, it's nothing but > age-old prostitution -- trading sex for money. > > 7- If you expect equality, then act like it > Equal rights means equal rights across the board -- not just when it's > in your best interests. If you expect equal pay, then expect to be > drafted and pay your share of dating expenses, too. > > 8- Stop blaming men for all your problems > We aren't what's wrong -- you are. > > 9- Just be nice > Can't you just be nice? Nobody likes a nasty, self-serving bitch. And > men today are very, very tired of self-serving bitches. > > 10- Read The Rules > That's right, read it. Then do the opposite of every piece of advice > the authors give. This is an ugly little book written by two women who > know nothing at all about men and a lot about female greed. > > Whip free > > So there you have it, guys. It's time to get that p-whip out of her > hands and start reclaiming your rights as a man. Excellent, cross posted to relevant groups. Article: 1045 of alt.support.short From: dmocsny@mfm.com (The Danimal) Newsgroups: alt.feminism,alt.love,alt.romance,alt.support.loneliness,alt.support.short,alt.support.shyness,soc.singles,soc.women Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Stop Letting Women Walk All Over You Date: 26 Aug 2003 09:05:02 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 172 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.26.159.225 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1061913903 32641 127.0.0.1 (26 Aug 2003 16:05:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 2003 16:05:03 GMT Path: news.meer.net!sea-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.vmunix.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-09!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: archive.mv.meer.net alt.feminism:9078 alt.love:14722 alt.romance:20914 alt.support.loneliness:13813 alt.support.short:1045 alt.support.shyness:73036 soc.singles:88591 soc.women:8514 "mickey" wrote in message news:... > "Darkfalz" wrote in message > news:bicrdq$7nvii$1@ID-108208.news.uni-berlin.de... > > "Hardpan" wrote in message > > news:blbjkv87bmpt4vfmu9nlo0s15h7bd8h9cs@4ax.com... > > > www.askmen.com > > > > > > Stop Letting Women Walk All Over You > > > > > > By Matthew Fitzgerald > > > > > > Relationship Correspondent > > > > > > So now it's time for you to lay down the law. > > > > > > Ask her to change. Tell her you're not going to put up with her > > > behavior any more. To get you started, here's a list of 10 basic rules > > > that you should print out and hand over to every woman in your life. > > > From now on, these are the rules she can abide by: > > > > > > The new Rule book > > > > > > > > > 1- Learn how to communicate > > > Say what you mean, ask for what you want directly. Expecting a man to > > > interpret indirect signals and read your mind is not communication. > > > > > > 2- Learn to be consistent > > > Irrational behavior just doesn't cut it. If you say you're going to do > > > something, then follow through and do it. Be honest with yourself -- > > > don't say one thing and do another. And for God's sake, don't change > > > your mind a million times. > > > > > > 3- Stop using sex as bait > > > If you want to have sex, then have sex. Don't use sex as a tool to > > > manipulate men. And another thing: Stop tempting men with low-cut > > > dresses or bare midriffs and then blame them for trying to get you > > > into bed. If you need attention that badly, go see a shrink. > > > > > > 4- Develop a conscience > > > Stop abusing your sexual power. Many women have no ethical dilemmas at > > > all about using men for favors or financial gain by dangling the > > > promise of sex in front of them. Not only is this deceitful and > > > immoral, but it's a double standard nothing short of fraud. > > > > > > 5- Knock off the mixed messages > > > If you're interested in a guy, let him know it. Ditto with sex. Maybe > > > playing hard to get is cool if you're 12 years old, but it's just > > > annoying 20 years later. Refer to rule #1 -- men aren't able to read > > > minds, so don't expect them to. > > > > > > 6- Stop expecting men to finance your life > > > This is the 2000's, for God's sake -- women are enjoying unparalleled > > > career and earning opportunities, and it's unfair to treat men like > > > ATM machines, especially when many women are earning as much or more > > > than we are. It may be a great scam, but at its core, it's nothing but > > > age-old prostitution -- trading sex for money. > > > > > > 7- If you expect equality, then act like it > > > Equal rights means equal rights across the board -- not just when it's > > > in your best interests. If you expect equal pay, then expect to be > > > drafted and pay your share of dating expenses, too. > > > > > > 8- Stop blaming men for all your problems > > > We aren't what's wrong -- you are. > > > > > > 9- Just be nice > > > Can't you just be nice? Nobody likes a nasty, self-serving bitch. And > > > men today are very, very tired of self-serving bitches. > > > > > > 10- Read The Rules > > > That's right, read it. Then do the opposite of every piece of advice > > > the authors give. This is an ugly little book written by two women who > > > know nothing at all about men and a lot about female greed. > > > > > > Whip free > > > > > > So there you have it, guys. It's time to get that p-whip out of her > > > hands and start reclaiming your rights as a man. > > > > Excellent, cross posted to relevant groups. > > Like that solves anything. Now now. Expressing that kind of cynicism will get you labeled a "realist." > Women play by the rules they play by with because if you don't like their rules, they can find another man who wants sex with them more than you do, at the time, and is willing to pay the price. This strategy works very well for young women, because of the appeal of novelty. Men are genetically programmed to constantly seek new mating opportunities. Therefore, a physically attractive woman stranger looks very appealing to many men who don't know her yet---much more appealing, in fact, than the same woman would be after a year or two of close contact. If one of those men succeeds in becoming her next mate, he will probably take some months to get to know her well enough to be annoyed with her behavior. Whereupon she gets a new man who doesn't know her well, and iterates. Eventually when she finds a man who will tolerate her behavior indefinitely, she might settle down. As long as a young woman remains attractive to large numbers of men, how can she fail? > because it gives them an upper hand. No, a young woman's rules *result from* the upper hand evolution has handed her---temporarily. Every young woman will eventually lose her looks and thus most of her value to men, if she lives long enough. And then the rules will change. Not that this helps anything. > The only rules that can help you are rules for building highly effective sex robots. Unfortunately, nobody knows what those rules are yet. If men were smart enough, they would invent them. Until young women get some real competition they are going to behave the way any group of people automatically behaves when it finds itself in an advantageous position in some important market. Another good example would be Saudi Arabia. Because the U.S. is full of automobile addicts, and we have to import so much petroleum to keep all our automobile addicts happy (gasoline is truly the opiate of the people here), Saudi Arabia basically has the U.S. by the balls. The Saudis can take our petrodollars and fund terrorism and indoctrinate their children to believe the U.S. is the great satan and so on, and every U.S. President has to kiss Saudi Arabia's butt no matter what. Saudi Arabia gains its market power over the U.S. because of two basic reasons: 1. U.S. citizens cannot resist their urges to drive cars (and wastefully: count the number of cars you see on your next drive that are carrying only one passenger each. As Bill Maher says, when you ride alone, you ride with bin Laden.) 2. U.S. citizens are not smart enough to invent any viable competition for Saudi Arabian petroleum. We can write all the angry editorials we like about the Saudis, but it would be more productive to get angry at our own lack of self control and lack of inventiveness. If we make ourselves weak, of course someone will exploit our weakness. That is how nature always works. > yourself. Asking them to play by your rules just because you like them is > naive. That's for sure. I feel sorry for people who seem to have trouble comprehending the essential selfishness of all other people. Other people are not necessarily "nice" as any one particular person might define "nice." Other people have their own interests which do not necessarily advance the interests of any one particular person. It's possible for a man who is sufficiently attractive to women to beat them at their own game, or at least put some points on the board. But think of how much attractiveness that would take. When a man sees a beautiful woman stranger 30 meters away, he is already drooling with desire for her. A man would have to be similarly attractive to women to make it a fair contest. -- the Danimal Article: 1047 of alt.support.short From: h8orama@hotmail.com (Hater) Newsgroups: alt.feminism,alt.love,alt.romance,alt.support.loneliness,alt.support.short,alt.support.shyness,soc.singles,soc.women Subject: Re: ARTICLE: Stop Letting Women Walk All Over You Date: 26 Aug 2003 16:55:06 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 48 Message-ID: <1472daf9.0308261555.237cee95@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.155.244.163 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1061942106 20996 127.0.0.1 (26 Aug 2003 23:55:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Aug 2003 23:55:06 GMT Path: news.meer.net!sea-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-09!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: archive.mv.meer.net alt.feminism:9080 alt.love:14727 alt.romance:20919 alt.support.loneliness:13833 alt.support.short:1047 alt.support.shyness:73045 soc.singles:88596 soc.women:8516 "mickey" wrote in message news:... > > Like that solves anything. Women play by the rules they play by with because > it gives them an upper hand. The only rules that can help you are rules for > yourself. Asking them to play by your rules just because you like them is > naive. > > -M Dammit, I can't stay away from this place--or resist a thread like this one. I agree with the quote above, but the article (which was meant for men, of course), can act a guide to what men shouldn't play along with, thereby encouraging them to develop corresponding rules for themselves. Of course it's naive to think that women could or would develop a conscience, etc., but reminding men that no woman has a conscience may lead a few of the men to stop playing along and contributing to the way things are. Hardpan's statement "Wanna get married, girls ? Then you play by OUR rules now!" was humorous, but way too optimistic; women will just leave any guy who tries to impose his rules on them for someone who will play along, because they can. The line "We aren't what's wrong -- you are" from the article is absolutely correct, but "what's wrong" is mostly created by men, so maybe it's what we deserve. I hope that more men will choose, on a personal level, not to make women their problem, and decide that nothing women can offer them is worth it. Eventually, maybe even men with relative advantages in the arena of sex will someday stop pursuing women, and the societal forces that cause men to value women and pressure each other to get them will be eroded. In the meantime, hopefully more men will realize that women's societal advantages over us aren't just in the area of sex, but in important life-or-death things, and we can collectively stop supporting women's interests financially, politically, etc. There may come a day when women can no longer count on the support and protection of obsequious men. OK, I know that will never happen; even most of the men here, who are shy or otherwise disadvantaged in that area, won't stop playing along. So things are fucked up, but it's our own fault and it will only get worse until a significant number of men stop their collaboration with the system. Believe and live *that*. Hear me now and believe me later, Hater