Article: 212069 of soc.singles Message-ID: <37351F2A.70CC637C@home.com> From: Mark Sobolewski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,alt.love,alt.singles,soc.men Subject: "Trying too hard" (was Re: How tough is dating? Is it THIS hard to find someone where there is mutual attraction? References: <7gsed0$393$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7gt5jh$mkq$2@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <7gtevh$1p8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 72 Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 05:37:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.189.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc2.occa.home.com 926228267 24.1.189.57 (Sat, 08 May 1999 22:37:47 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 22:37:47 PDT Organization: @Home Network Path: news1.meer.net!news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc2.occa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news1.meer.net alt.romance:135475 soc.singles:212069 alt.love:28779 soc.men:267174 richardhutnik@hotmail.com wrote: > In article <7gt5jh$mkq$2@news7.svr.pol.co.uk>, > "Tom Wright" wrote: > > It sounds to me as though you are simply TRYING TOO HARD! If you > > deliberately TRY and get dates, then it simply won't work, and the few times > > that you do succeed, chances are that you won't be compatible anyway. My > > advice would be to simply 'get out more', not only for the sake of getting a > > date, but also to further improve your own lifestyle. > > Try too hard? How about I am in a class work related, and once out of > maybe 3 classes I see someone in the class I try to get to know. And that > goes nowhere. I hardly every ask any women out. On the rare occation I try, > it doesn't work. And, how will I know if I am compatible if I am not even > able to get the date with the person? In non-work situations, the only thing > "getting out more" results in for me, is bumping into women once and only > once. This would be at a bookstore and whatnot. Not exactly the place to > develop some rapport. I am also NOT a bar person. It's contradictory, super unrealistic demands of men that result in so many complaints from women: On the one hand, men are expected to "not try too hard", "be honest", not brag about their money and looks, and learn "no means no!" At the same time, women traditionally want men to take the initiative, test a man's perseverance by saying no repeatedly, earn a good income, and say what she wants to hear (so much for honesty.) When the men who meet these requirements turn out to be fakes and liars they whine "boo hoo! Where's the nearest women's shelter/welfare office/palimony attorney" My ex (whose an attorney) stopped defending women in divorce cases unless she was paid the money up front. Men paid their legal bills without trouble but it was common for women to demand she collect the money from the ex (who weren't exactly in a paying mood after being fleeced by her in court.) > > Also, I think your comments about sexual harassment and lawsuits were > > shall we say some what exaggerated? I could be wrong, but perhaps it shows > > a slightly 'off putting attitude towards women in general? Also, I really > > don't think you have to worry about asking women at work out on dates, maybe > > things are different here in the UK, but SEXUAL HARASSMENT...surly not. > In the United States, it isn't, although maybe I am overly concerned. > However, here, asking out a woman on a date, complimenting how she looks or > relating to her in ANY way that may be construed as you being physically > attracted to here, can be grounds for a sexual harassment suite. It is that > annoying here. In order NOT to be considered engaging in sexual harassment, > you need to treat the woman like a co-worker who doesn't have a gender. If you aren't legally saavy, that's certainly true. Fortunately, it's quite easy to filter out women who are golddiggers: Be friendly and talkative and if a woman likes you, she'll help you along. If she plays "hard to get", be prepared to be fleeced. Maybe she will, maybe she won't but she certainly will put you in a position where she can do so when she wants to. If someone spends most of their time at your place searching for where you hide things, would you trust them? As a result, I do my best to FILTER OUT parasites: Make her pay her way on a date. Don't wait for her to offer. Date women who take a healthy initiative. Be honest with your own physical expectations in women and what their expectations are with you. Many people you may love (and vice versa) may turn out to be physical which quickly wanes over time. Let's be careful out there! -- "Men RAN things because they could..." -- Marg Petersen (Mark A. Sobolewski ) Article: 212213 of soc.singles From: fk01@my-dejanews.com Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,alt.love,alt.singles Subject: Re: "Trying too hard" (was Re: How tough is dating? Is it THIS hard to find someone where there is mutual attraction? Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 02:50:48 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Lines: 62 Message-ID: <7h5hi8$99q$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <7gsed0$393$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7gt5jh$mkq$2@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <7gtevh$1p8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <37351F2A.70CC637C@home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.241.121.38 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon May 10 02:50:48 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x36.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 205.241.121.38 Path: news1.meer.net!news3.best.com!news2.best.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.dejanews.com!nnrp1.dejanews.com!not-for-mail Xref: news1.meer.net alt.romance:135565 soc.singles:212213 alt.love:28789 In article <37351F2A.70CC637C@home.com>, Mark Sobolewski wrote: > > It's contradictory, super unrealistic demands of men that result in > so many complaints from women: > > On the one hand, men are expected to "not try too hard", "be honest", > not brag about their money and looks, and learn "no means no!" > > At the same time, women traditionally want men to take the initiative, > test a man's perseverance by saying no repeatedly, earn a good income, > and say what she wants to hear (so much for honesty.) > Women have been sold a rotten bill of goods by feminists, who define men as tyrant-fathers yet demand that men be nurturant mother-like figures. Women take this contradictory thinking with them into relationships, which inevitably results in dissatisfaction. Women who coerce sensitivity from their men find that there is no masculinity in their partner when they need or expect it. > Fortunately, it's quite easy to filter out women who are golddiggers: > Be friendly and talkative and if a woman likes you, she'll help you > along. If she plays "hard to get", be prepared to be fleeced. > Maybe she will, maybe she won't but she certainly will put you > in a position where she can do so when she wants to. If someone > spends most of their time at your place searching for where you > hide things, would you trust them? Women who are extroverted, neurotic, tend to always blame others for their problems, have trouble maintaining friendships and other personal relationships, whose lives and whose family's lives seem always to be filled with drama, etc., are other examples of whom to avoid. > As a result, I do my best to FILTER OUT parasites: Make her pay her > way on a date. Don't wait for her to offer. I don't think there is anything wrong with the man paying for dinner. Where I would draw the line is if a girlfriend asks for a "loan" of $1000. (And this sort of thing happens fairly often, actually.) > Date women who take > a healthy initiative. On the other hand, don't be bowled over by a borderline, hysteric, or sociopathic woman, who will come across as being very charming, aggressive and outgoing, at least at first. > Be honest with your own physical expectations > in women and what their expectations are with you. Many people > you may love (and vice versa) may turn out to be physical which > quickly wanes over time. > > Let's be careful out there! Hear hear! =Fred --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.--- Article: 212220 of soc.singles Message-ID: <37365516.C8F86D38@home.com> From: Mark Sobolewski X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.romance,soc.singles,alt.love,alt.singles,soc.men Subject: Re: "Trying too hard" (was Re: How tough is dating? Is it THIS hard to find someone where there is mutual attraction? References: <7gsed0$393$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <7gt5jh$mkq$2@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <7gtevh$1p8$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <37351F2A.70CC637C@home.com> <7h5hi8$99q$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 96 Date: Mon, 10 May 1999 03:40:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.189.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc2.occa.home.com 926307609 24.1.189.57 (Sun, 09 May 1999 20:40:09 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 20:40:09 PDT Organization: @Home Network Path: news1.meer.net!news3.best.com!news2.best.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc2.occa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: news1.meer.net alt.romance:135570 soc.singles:212220 alt.love:28793 soc.men:267214 fk01@my-dejanews.com wrote: > In article <37351F2A.70CC637C@home.com>, Mark Sobolewski wrote: > > It's contradictory, super unrealistic demands of men that result in > > so many complaints from women: > > > > On the one hand, men are expected to "not try too hard", "be honest", > > not brag about their money and looks, and learn "no means no!" > > > > At the same time, women traditionally want men to take the initiative, > > test a man's perseverance by saying no repeatedly, earn a good income, > > and say what she wants to hear (so much for honesty.) > > > > Women have been sold a rotten bill of goods by feminists, who define > men as tyrant-fathers yet demand that men be nurturant mother-like > figures. Women take this contradictory thinking with them into > relationships, which inevitably results in dissatisfaction. Women who > coerce sensitivity from their men find that there is no masculinity in > their partner when they need or expect it. Hold on a minute here. I'm not big fan of feminism, but these problems have long existed between men and women in ALL cultures. Feminists are just very hypocritical about it. > > Fortunately, it's quite easy to filter out women who are golddiggers: > > Be friendly and talkative and if a woman likes you, she'll help you > > along. If she plays "hard to get", be prepared to be fleeced. > > Maybe she will, maybe she won't but she certainly will put you > > in a position where she can do so when she wants to. If someone > > spends most of their time at your place searching for where you > > hide things, would you trust them? > > Women who are extroverted, neurotic, tend to always blame others for > their problems, have trouble maintaining friendships and other personal > relationships, whose lives and whose family's lives seem always to be > filled with drama, etc., are other examples of whom to avoid. Ha! I learned that firsthand! :-) But that can be said of anyone. It's just not socially tolerated in men. Men who beat and neglect their children get 5 to 10, women get a huge welfare and child-support check and counseling. :-) > > As a result, I do my best to FILTER OUT parasites: Make her pay her > > way on a date. Don't wait for her to offer. > > I don't think there is anything wrong with the man paying for dinner. > Where I would draw the line is if a girlfriend asks for a "loan" of > $1000. (And this sort of thing happens fairly often, actually.) You can draw the line whereever you like. Quite frankly, if I was going to accept women the way most of them are I wouldn't go for traditional dating. I would do it like my casanova cousin who seduces extremely attractive, wealthy women by saying what they want to hear. He isn't friends with many women though. There's nothing "wrong" with paying for a woman's company. I just consider it rather humiliating myself. Why not just get a prostitute and be done with it? You get a better value for your dollar... > > Date women who take > > a healthy initiative. > > On the other hand, don't be bowled over by a borderline, hysteric, or > sociopathic woman, who will come across as being very charming, > aggressive and outgoing, at least at first. The same can be said of men! The men who play the contradictory "game" the best also generally turn out to be the psychos that send so many of them to the welfare and domestic violence crisis centers. :-) Life, for the most part, is truly fair is it not? > > Be honest with your own physical expectations > > in women and what their expectations are with you. Many people > > you may love (and vice versa) may turn out to be physical which > > quickly wanes over time. > > > > Let's be careful out there! > > Hear hear! > > =Fred > > --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- > ---Share what you know. Learn what you don't.--- -- "Men RAN things because they could..." -- Marg Petersen (Mark A. Sobolewski )