Article: 155 of soc.support.depression.treatment From: "clamnebula" Newsgroups: alt.suicide,alt.support.depression,alt.support.depression.recovery,alt.support.depression.teens,soc.support.depression.treatment Subject: Buckminster Fuller on depression Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 16:03:20 EDT Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 16:15:24 -0400 Path: news.meer.net!dfw-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!c03.atl99!news.webusenet.com!pc01.webusenet.com!fe10.atl2.webusenet.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: archive.mv.meer.net alt.support.depression:40808 alt.support.depression.recovery:2490 alt.support.depression.teens:150 soc.support.depression.treatment:155 I saw this on another message board, and thought it made a lot of sense. -Neb . ............................ Buckminster Fuller, who pulled back from suicide at the last minute at age 19, and then went on to become the most incisive social observer, once said this, about what we now call "depression:" "Any organism experiencing vital tolerance transgression will act out with some anomalous behvior." Thus, the whole assumption that depression lies in the neurochemical pathways of the brain are mistaken. Indeed, its now becoming clear that many anti-depressants cause more problems than they fix. And, by allowing this "illness" explanation to be dominant, we absolve ourselves from looking at the "vital tolerance transgressions" that so many experience, which lead to emotional difficulties later on, most of which can be eased simply by a caring, nurturing, gentle melieu that lasts as long as it takes. History is full of examples of strong social trends backed by huge hierarchies of power and prestige which have turned out to be completely wrong, and often overtly harmful. There is an unwritten law in history, thus: The Law of Unintended Consequences. Our approach to "depression" may well fit into this frame. The afflicted don't need drugs. They need simple honest care and kindness..., that which too many have never been given. Article: 158 of soc.support.depression.treatment From: "Christina Foster Peterson" Newsgroups: alt.suicide,alt.support.depression,alt.support.depression.recovery,alt.support.depression.teens,soc.support.depression.treatment Subject: Re: Buckminster Fuller on depression Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 14:44:20 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 63 Path: news.meer.net!dfw-read.news.verio.net!dfw-artgen!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: archive.mv.meer.net alt.support.depression:40881 alt.support.depression.recovery:2497 alt.support.depression.teens:153 soc.support.depression.treatment:158 Thanks, Courage, You put it so much better than I did. Christina "Courage" wrote in message news:pn819vk3sfb97br0i3g1g6k1nteoovc78u@4ax.com... > "Christina Foster Peterson" wrote: > >"clamnebula" wrote: > > >> I saw this on another message board, and thought it made a lot of sense. > >> > >> -Neb > >> . > >> ............................ > >> Buckminster Fuller, who pulled back from suicide at the last minute at age > >>19, and then went on to become the most incisive social observer, once said > >>this, about what we now call "depression:" "Any organism experiencing vital > >>tolerance transgression will act out with some anomalous behvior." Thus, the whole > >>assumption that depression lies in the neurochemical pathways of the brain > >>are mistaken. Indeed, its now becoming clear that many anti-depressants cause > >>more problems than they fix. And, by allowing this "illness" explanation to be > >>dominant, we absolve ourselves from looking at the "vital tolerance > >>transgressions" that so many experience, which lead to emotional difficulties > >> later on, most of which can be eased simply by a caring, nurturing, gentle > >> melieu that lasts as long as it takes. History is full of examples of > >>strong social trends backed by huge hierarchies of power and prestige which have > >>turned out to be completely wrong, and often overtly harmful. There is an > >>unwritten law in history, thus: The Law of Unintended Consequences. Our approach to > >>"depression" may well fit into this frame. The afflicted don't need drugs. > >>They need simple honest care and kindness..., that which too many have never > >>been given. > > >Too bad he didn't know what the f**k he was talking about. > > > >Christina > > I get awfully tired of seeing this presented as an either/or issue. It > seems pretty obvious that the body and the environment act on each > other. > > It's also not Buckminster Fuller's fault that a perfectly good quote > has been coopted by one zealot and spat upon by another.